Gambling With an Edge - former surveillance operator - Junior

Our guest this week is a former surveillance operator named Junior.  For the last 15 years Junior has worked in surveillance rooms on the Las Vegas strip. We will be having Junior on again soon so if yu have more questions for him send them to us at gamblingwithanedge@gmail.com.

We welcome your questions - send them to us at gamblingwithanedge@gmail.com, or you can find me at @RWM21 on Twitter or https://www.facebook.com/GamblingWithAnEdge.

podcast
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Show Notes

[00:00] Introduction of former surveillance employee, Junior
[00:17] Junior's gambling experience outside of surveillance
[00:57] Getting into surveillance
[03:23] How much attention do casinos pay to slot and video poker players?
[04:59] Hustlers
[06:35] Multi-carding
[07:47] Facial recognition
[13:26] What information is shared across company properties and with competitors
[14:31] Ted Whiting
[15:49] Techniques used to identify card counters
[18:09] Methods used to identify other forms of advantage play
[23:21] Surveillance room culture
[25:57] How much time is spent monitoring casino employees?
[29:05] Cheating and theft by employees
[34:22] South Point Casino July Promotions - Free Play with a Kicker starts July 5th
[35:08] BlackjackApprenticeship.com - card counting training site with software, tools, and members-only forum
[35:41] VideoPoker.com/gwae - Gold Membership offers correction on most games, free Pro Membership trial for GWAE listeners
[36:41] False positives
[39:50] Playing uncarded
[41:29] Is wearing a hat a red flag?
[41:55] Hole carding
[43:19] Phil Ivey and Kelly Sun
[46:36] Famous players
[51:57] Did Junior ever contact a player who was generating heat?
[53:02] Age, race, and gender stereotypes
[57:30] Recommended: No Stupid Questions podcast, The President is Missing by Bill Clinton and James Patterson


Sponsored Links:
SouthPointCasino.com
VideoPoker.com/gwae
BlackjackApprenticeship.com


Recommended:
Freakonomics.com/nsq

The President is Missing by Bill Clinton and James Patterson https://amzn.to/3dyzqdM

Gambling With an Edge - guest T Dane

Our guest this week is T Dane,  a surveillance expert, and author of "Behind the Black Dome."

We welcome your questions - send them to us at gamblingwithanedge@gmail.com, or you can find me at @RWM21 on Twitter or https://www.facebook.com/GamblingWithAnEdge.

podcast
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Show Notes

[00:00] Introduction of T. Dane surveillance expert and author of Behind the Black Dome

[00:36] The origin of the name T. Dane

[01:42] How much of Behind the Black Dome is still relevant?

[02:48] T. Dane's employment history

[04:44] The impact of Covid-19 on surveillance

[08:08] When would surveillance employees want to identify a person

[12:36] Do surveillance employees get sent down to the floor?

[13:22] How much focus on advantage play?

[14:41] Are there incentives from management to catch advantage players?

[16:51] Players with tunnel vision

[20:01] Database usage and contributions

[23:36] What size win would trigger a tape review?

[25:21] South Point Casino July Promotions - "Spin to Win," point multipliers on July 4th

[26:57] Predictit.org/promo/edge - place small bets on political events, $20 deposit match for GWAE listeners

[27:54] BlackjackApprenticeship.com - card counting training site and community

[28:36] VideoPoker.com/gwae - Gold Membership offers correct on most games, Game of the Week is Multi-Strike Poker

[30:07] Facial recognition technology

[33:20] Using social media to identify advantage players

[37:01] License plate recognition

[41:02] How many advantage players per week did T. Dane see?

[41:45] When T. Dane was an advantage player did he park where he played?

[43:31] Use of player's card information

[46:29] Rat-holing chips

[48:00] Cheating incidents

[49:51] How many surveillance workers know the basic strategy for blackjack? How many can count cards?

[53:54] RFID chips

[55:03] What percentage of time is heat generated from the pit boss?


Sponsored Links:

SouthPointCasino.com
Predictit.org/promo/edge
BlackjackApprenticeship.com
VideoPoker.com/gwae

Referenced Links:
Other T. Dane Interviews:
BlackjackApprenticeship.com/behind-the-black-dome-interview/
LasVegasAdvisor.com/gambling-with-an-edge/interview-with-t-dane-author-of-behind/

Gambling With an Edge - guest Surveillance Operator, Jackson

Our guest this week is a surveillance operator named Jackson. "Jackson," is also an AP blackjack player who works/plays in the Midwest. Should listeners want to contact him they can reach him at blackjackjimmy777@gmail.com.

We welcome your questions - send them to us at gamblingwithanedge@gmail.com, or you can find me at @RWM21 on Twitter or https://www.facebook.com/GamblingWithAnEdge.

podcast
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Show Notes

[00:00] Introduction of Jackson, a surveillance employee and blackjack AP

[00:36] Jackson's history working in surveillance

[03:45] Surveillance advantage play training and detection

[08:50] Databases

[11:50] Tape review threshold and methods

[17:49] Do surveillance people go down to the floor?

[18:34] Contributing to OSN

[19:27] How many APs are typically spotted in a week?

[21:02] Carnival games

[22:17] Where does heat originate?

[24:41] Counter detection software

[26:35] Can most surveillance employees count?

[27:37] Review policy

[29:31] As a dealer, did Jackson count or evaluate players?

[31:57] How often does Jackson play?

[35:17] South Point Casino - June promotion is "Free Play with a Kicker"

[36:40] Predictit.org/promo/edge - place small bets on political events, $20 deposit match for GWAE listeners

[37:17] VideoPoker.com/gwae - Gold Membership offers correction on most games, free Pro Membership trial for GWAE listeners

[37:58] How did Jackson get his bankroll?

[42:51] Do surveillance guys go to AP forums?

[43:57] Has Jackson met players that he has spotted from surveillance?

[45:30] Jackson's back-offs

[47:12] Playing with a mask

[49:02] Has Jackson been flyered?


Sponsored Links:

SouthPointCasino.com
Predictit.org/promo/edge
VideoPoker.com/gwae

Gambling With an Edge - guest The Heist

Our guest this week is a former surveillance operator turned professional sports bettor.  We call him "The Heist.".

We welcome your questions - send them to us at gamblingwithanedge@gmail.com, or you can find me at @RWM21 on Twitter.

podcast
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Show Notes

[00:00]  Introduction of The Heist, former surveillance employee and current poker player/sports bettor

[00:35]  The Heist's surveillance experience

[07:15]  The Tran Organization and Archie Karas

[07:55]  Cheating and facial recognition

[11:00]  Card craps AP story

[16:04]  G2E trips and other surveillance training

[17:41]  Tribal casino legal proceedings

[19:09]  Why did The Heist give up surveillance?

[22:18]  Sports betting

[24:45]  The SuperContest

[27:20]  South Point January Casino Promotions - $500,000 "Spin to Win." MLK Hot Seat, free video poker classes start 1/14

[29:48]  Predictit.org/promo/edge - places small bets on political events

[30:35]  BlackJackApprenticeship.com - blackjack training site

[31:00]  VideoPoker.com/gwae - Gold Membership offers correction on most games, Pro Membership includes correction on Ultimate X and Quick Quads

[32:07]  Do casinos data mine search for players with lifetime wins?

[32:43]  Red flags that attract attention from surveillance

[37:02]  Sports betting promotions

[40:17]  Betting on Asian baseball

[43:50]  Prop betting

[45:58]  How did he get the name "The Heist?"

[47:01]  Recommended - Las Vegas Improv, National Parks Lifetime Pass, "52 Things that I learned in 2019."

SouthPointCasino.com

Predictit.org/promo/edge

BlackJackApprenticeship.com

VideoPoker.com/GWAE

BobDancer.com/seminars

Youtube.com/user/bjavideos

Las Vegas Improvisation Players LVimprov.com

National Park Passes Nps.gov/planyourvisit/passes.htm

52 things I learned in 2019 Medium.com/fluxx-studio-notes/52-things-i-learned-in-2019-8ee483e6c816

Gambling With an Edge - guest "It's Not a Fluke"

Our guest this week uses the handle, "It's Not a Fluke." He is an advantage player that has also worked as a dealer, a supervisor, and in surveillance.

We welcome your questions - send them to us at gamblingwithanedge@gmail.com, or you can find me at @RWM21 on Twitter.

podcast
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Show Notes

[00:00] Introduction of ItsNotAFluke, a current AP who previously worked in surveillance

[00:37] Fluke's early casino career and experience in dealer training

[07:19] Sycuan and the Tran Organization

[15:25] High stakes shuffle trackers

[19:44] Employee theft, day to day operations and monitoring AP

[27:13] Reno pit boss experience with a card counter

[34:55] South Point Casino June Promotion: Half Price Gas and Goods

[35:38] VideoPoker.com: Gold membership offers correction on most games

[36:31] Working during a grand opening of a casino in northern California

[39:47] Fluke gets fired after a bet capping incident

[44:08] Fluke's transition into AP

[49:05] How does Fluke's wife handle his AP life?

SouthPointCasino.com
VideoPoker.com

Gambling With an Edge - Inside The Edge

Our guests this week are KC and Chris Buddy, on to talk about their new documentary "Inside the Edge," which follows a successful blackjack player across the country.

We welcome your questions - send them to us at gamblingwithanedge@gmail.com, or you can find me at @RWM21 on Twitter.

podcast
Click to listen - Alt click to download

Show Notes

[00:00] Introduction of Chris and KC, producers of the blackjack documentary "Inside the Edge"

[00:38] How did "Inside the Edge" come about?

[04:06] The loneliness of being on the road

[07:29] Editing and production challenges

[11:02] When was the documentary filmed?

[14:50] How did they get so many APs to appear in the documentary?

[19:12] Did KC have any reservations about revealing AP techniques?

[23:57] Discussion about KC's father

[30:25] When was the last time that KC played blackjack?

[31:55] KC's negative experience with a foreign casino

[35:36] Did KC get back-roomed during filming?

[39:10] South Point Casino - Half Price Gas and Goods promotion

[39:53] VideoPoker.com - Gold membership offers correction on most games

[41:14] Trouble cashing chips in Tunica
[44:20] Traveling with cash

[49:27] What did KC do after blackjack?

[51;21] Where is "Inside the Edge" available?

SouthPointCasino.com
VideoPoker.com

Gambling With an Edge - Surveillance Pro, Griff part 2

This week we have a return visit from "Griff," a surveillance director who works somewhere east of Las Vegas. Griff answers questions from our listeners.  We welcome your questions - send them to us at gamblingwithanedge@gmail.com.

podcast
click to listen - alt click to download

Show Notes

[00:00] Introduction of Grif, Surveillance Pro
[00:39] Does the mode of transportation affect the casino's opinion of a player?
[01:25] How often to casinos review all available footage of a player?
[04:12] Do casinos track who APs talk to into the casino?
[06:35] How do casinos detect hole carding?
[07:29] How often do casinos read players texts?
[10:12] Has Grif ever seen distractions used as part of a scam?
[14:04] How does surveillance deal with calls about betting table thresholds?
[15:42] What happens when a player receives a sizable marker?
[17:09] Does surveillance get a call for every W2G?
[18:00] Do casinos notify their competitors about known APs or cheaters?
[19:21] Does Grif contribute to OSN? How widely dispersed are OSN flyers?
[20:43] How long is digital surveillance information saved?
[22:42] Has Grif participated in choke point design?
[24:29] Does surveillance have direct access to kiosk or ATM cameras?
[26:04] South Point Casino Promotions - VP classes start 1/8
[27:01] VideoPoker.com - Game of the Week: Face Card Frenzy
[28:19] What is the difference between a back-off and a trespass?
[31:14] Is there software that can identify various types of advantage play?
[31:42] Does Grif's casino sweat people who track numbers at roulette?
[33:45] How many casinos use RFID chips to track betting patterns?
[35:53] How does the work day begin and end in the surveillance department?
[37:20] How does surveillance head count vary by shift and time of day?
[39:33] Will casinos buy AP literature to educate employees?
[42:11] Is Grif an AP is his spare time?
[43:13] How much analysis is done in real time versus after the fact?
[44:40] Does Grif check other players at the table during a hole-card game?
[46:51] Are their cameras that cannot be seen by the customers?
[48:20] Does a surveillance officer wear a wire when investigating employee theft?
[49:38] Who makes the decision to call the police?
[50:48] Are surveillance and security usually in the same department?
[54:16] Is math aptitude part of the job in surveillance?

"Card Counting for the Casino Executive" by Bill Zender and Derryl Rice https://amzn.to/2GAxL9A

"Burning the Tables in Las Vegas " by Ian Andersen - https://amzn.to/2QYYLDV

SouthPointCasino.com
VideoPoker.com/gwae

Gambling With an Edge - Surveillance Pro, Griff

Our guest this week is "Griff," a surveillance director who works somewhere east of Las Vegas. Griff answers questions from our listeners.  We welcome your questions - send them to us at gamblingwithanedge@gmail.com.

podcast
click to listen - alt click to download

Show Notes

[00:00] Intro of Grif, The Surveillance Pro
[00:54] Would coloring up during high counts provide cover?
[03:08] Is Hi-Lo tracked by employees or software?
[04:30] How effective are Ian Andersen's cover plays?
[05:48] Who makes the decision to bar a player?
[07:16] Do casinos ever ban losing players?
[07:32] How does facial recognition software perform?
[11:34] Do casinos actively gather license plate data?
[14:33] Do casinos have the ability to scan license plates automatically upon entrance?
[16:22] How does surveillance prioritize their duties?
[18:59] How often is Grif free to look at things on his own?
[22:26] Are hats a big tell for advantage players?
[23:29] Is Grif aware of advantage slot players and efforts to ban them?
[26:59] Does surveillance track regular players who only play high video poker progressives?
[27:58] Does not using a player's card raise any red flags?
[29:02] Does Grif use a database? Who checks the database?
[31:17] How user friendly are the databases?
[32:08] South Point Casino: December Promotions
[33:26] VideoPoker.com: GWAE offer until 12/31
[35:19] Is there a database for player's jewelry?
[38:20] Does drinking alcohol have any effect on the analysis of players?
[39:41] How long does Grif keep pictures of AP's that have not yet been banned?
[41:01] How do casinos treat large wins by non-counters?
[43:37] Does Grif making HR decisions in the surveillance department?
[47:03] Are more losses caused AP's, cheaters, or employees?
[49:18] How prevalent is professional cheating?
[51:15] How often does Grif see advantage play?

"Burning the Tables in Las Vegas " by Ian Andersen - https://amzn.to/2QYYLDV

SouthPointCasino.com
VideoPoker.com/gwae

Gambling With an Edge - guest Captain Jack and G2E 2018

Bob and I are again joined by sports bettor and GWAE columnist Captain Jack to discuss what we saw, liked, or didn't like at the recent Global Gaming Expo held last week in Las Vegas.

podcast
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Show Notes

[00:00] Introduction of Captain Jack and G2E
[00:40] How can casino managers improve sportsbook operations?
[03:40] What new sports betting offerings did Captain Jack see at G2E?
[08:10] In-game betting approval process and regulation.
[11:45] Expansion of Westgate SuperBook to other states.
[12:54] Facial recognition products.
[16:07] A blackjack variant where all hands push on a dealer 16.
[19:06] A "smart shoe" ShuffleMaster blackjack variant.
[20:22] New side bets on most table games.
[21:42] New video poker games: Lucky 8, Max Action Poker, and Stack the Deck, etc
[35:38] Multi-Strike and Super Times Play Keno.
[36:30] Gamblit skill-based games: Pac-Man, Deal or No Deal, etc
[39:18] Gaming Arts' Casino Wizard blackjack game.
[40:20] Stadium games with multiple games, fewer dealers.
[41:17] Next Gaming's skill-based games.
[42:15] SouthPoint Casino October promotions.
[42:37] VideoPoker.com promotions.
[43:12] AutoSlash.com car rentals.
[45:11] Cammegh roulette randomness.

AutoSlash - http://autoslash.com
SouthPoint Casino - https://southpointcasino.com/
VideoPoker.com - https://www.videopoker.com/gwae

Gambling With an Edge - Dr. Nick

Our guest this week is Dr. Nick.  Dr. Nick is a blackjack player, gambling writer, and host of the podcast Dr. Nick and the Hot Aussie Chick.

podcast 
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Show Notes

[0:30] Listener question #1:  Basic player card info for video poker

[4:29] Listener question #2:  Tips for memorizing basic blackjack strategy

[7:39] Listener question #3:  Blackjack and No Limit Texas Hold'em risk of ruin

[11:52] Dr. Nick's arrest for allegedly cheating at Green Valley Ranch

[20:30] G2E's "Current Cheats, Scams, and Frauds" seminar featured Dr. Nick's case, despite dismissal of charges

[31:15] Dr. Nick's path to blackjack and experience with the MIT blackjack team

[39:49] Blackjack in Las Vegas, EV of players card versus EV of anonymity 

[44:01] Dr. Nick's case against Caesar's for breach of innkeeper's duty

[46:03] Dr. Nick's educational background and current projects

[48:30] "Dr. Nick and the Hot Aussie Chick" podcast

"Dr. Nick and the Hot Aussie Chick" podcast Gamblingwithanedge.com

Casino Verite software https://www.qfit.com/

Playing Blackjack as a Business  https://amzn.to/2PbJxqn

Theory of Blackjack  https://amzn.to/2NoyRnO

The Course - https://amzn.to/2PIlron

Gambling With an Edge - Guest Joe Navarro

Our guest this week is Joe Navarro, author of Read 'Em and Reap, 200 Poker Tells, and several other books on reading body language. For 25 years, Joe Navarro worked as an FBI special agent in the area of counterintelligence and behavioral assessment. Today he is one of the world's leading experts on nonverbal communications and lectures and consults with major corporations worldwide. He is an adjunct professor at Saint Leo University and frequently lectures at the Harvard Business School. 

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Gambling With an Edge - guest Willy Allison #2

This week's guest is Willy Allison, casino game protection consultant, trainer, and adviser. He is also the founder of the world Game Protection Conference. We talk to Willy about surveillance's role in protecting the casinos, and where the biggest threats lie.

podcast

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Gambling With an Edge - Surveillance Agent Jay

Agent Jay has been working in Las Vegas surveillance rooms for over 20 years. He is our guest this week to tell us what surveillance people are looking for when watching for advantage players.

podcast

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The Phil Ivey case

For those not familiar with the Ivey case let me give you a brief recap. In August of 2012 Phil Ivey, and a partner named Cheung Yin Sun played Punto Banco at Crockfords in London. He won 7.7 million pounds over 2 days. (Spoiler alert - he was edge sorting.) Crockfords said they would wire him the money, and then stiffed him. He sued to get the money he won, and on October 8 the judge ruled that Crockfords did not have to pay because Ivey cheated.  A few facts about the case:

• The casino used new cards for each shoe. Ivey played 4 shoes before asking to keep the same cards. Since Ivey and his partner were not touching the cards the casino agreed.
• They were using a brand of cards called Angel. (Not Gemaco)
• Ivey asked that the casino use a machine to shuffle the cards.
• At the end of the first night's play Ivey asked if he could continue the next day with the same cards. 

Here are a few choice quotes from the judgement:

"There is a complete dearth of authority on cheating at common law, at least in the civil context. This is unsurprising. Although at common law gaming contracts were enforceable in principle, though sometimes not in practice on particular facts, section 18 of the Gaming Act 1845 provided that all contracts or agreements by way of gaming and wagering shall be null and void. No suit could therefore be raised by or against a party to a gaming contract alleged to have cheated. There is, therefore, no case law on what amounts to cheating."

"This is, as far as I know, the first case in which the question whether or not the conduct of a party to a gaming contract amounted to cheating has had to be determined in an English court."

"There is no commonly accepted view amongst those who play Punto Banco about whether edge-sorting does or does not amount to cheating. David Mills, a levelheaded and experienced English expert in casino gambling considers that it does. Towards the end of 2013 he conducted a survey amongst seven of the eight biggest casino operators in the UK. He found that four out of the seven considered that it was cheating and two out of seven considered it was not a legitimate practice. The remaining one considered that it was not cheating, nor illegitimate. Dr. Jacobson, to whom I have already referred, who has extensive experience in the USA of casino gambling both as a consultant to casinos and, between 1997 and 2005, as an advantage player himself, considers that it is not cheating. His informal survey, as he put it, of "hundreds of people" has provided the answer that the general but not universal view is that it is not cheating. I have not found these expressions of opinion to be helpful. Mr. Mills did not canvass gamblers and, as far as I can tell, Dr. Jacobson's survey was unsystematic. Neither establishes a generally accepted view."

RWM: Really? This is the way they approached this? The casino expert went and asked a bunch of casino operators what they think, and the other side did an informal survey of hundreds of people?

"Crockfords maintain that the claimant practised (sic) deception upon them by pretending to be superstitious when he was not, for example, by making a fuss over lucky Crockfords hats, which he and Ms Sun wore, and by asking for "lucky" cards and for a Chinese croupier on the ground that he got lucky when playing with Asian women."

I can go on, but below you can read the judgement for yourself. We will be discussing this with Ken Adams on tonight's Gambling With an Edge, and again next week with attorney Bob Nersesian.

 Ivey Judgement

Eye and the Grinder

About 2 years ago I interviewed surveillance expert T Dane. You can read that interview here. T Dane wrote a book called, Behind The Black Dome: An Advantage Player’s Guide to Casino Surveillance, which is well worth picking up. Well the man is at it again. He has started blogging at Eye and the Grinder. He says it is a blog about Advantage Players and the Eye in the Sky. The blog is relatively new, but check it out. There is some interesting stuff there.